Difference between revisions of "User:Mjb/Phonorecord copyright symbol"

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====
+
==Content removed==
  
The phonorecord copyright symbol is ℗ (U+2117),
+
In 2007, I did some research into whether Discogs should encourage the use of the Unicode character for the phonorecord copyright symbol is ℗ (U+2117). Some users were opposed to it because their browsers couldn't display ℗; they wanted to instead use Ⓟ (U+24C5) or ⓟ (U+24DF), which were somewhat more widely supported. I hated this idea, because they are the wrong characters, both semantically and aesthetically.
not ⓟ (U+24C5).
 
  
The regular copyright symbol is © (U+00A9).
+
The main problem is that fonts, as used in computer operating systems, generally only contain glyphs for a subset of the bazillion characters in Unicode. On top of that, you can't guarantee that people are using the fonts you want. A smart text rendering system, when told to render a character that the desired font doesn't have, will look for a suitable replacement from some other font. I believe that's what happens now. It wasn't happening in 2007.
  
==Fonts on my system that contain ==
+
So, in 2007, I did some testing with my browsers at home, and put my notes on this wiki page. The idea was to see what worked and what didn't, and whether we could maybe implement a workaround that would force the proper display of on everyone's browsers.
  
{| border="1" cellspacing="1"
+
However, soon after I started doing that, browsers became more robust and were able to display the proper ℗ character without us having to resort to workarounds or doing anything fancy with web fonts. At least, I think it's working for most people, most of the time.
|+
 
!Font !! 7pt !! 8pt !! 9pt !! 10pt !! 11pt !! 12pt !! 13pt !! 14pt !! 16pt !! 18pt
 
|-
 
!<span style="font-family: Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">Arial Unicode MS</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: Arial Unicode MS; font-size: 7pt">℗©</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: Arial Unicode MS; font-size: 8pt">℗©</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: Arial Unicode MS; font-size: 9pt">℗©</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: Arial Unicode MS; font-size: 10pt">℗©</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: Arial Unicode MS; font-size: 11pt">℗©</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: Arial Unicode MS; font-size: 12pt">℗©</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: Arial Unicode MS; font-size: 13pt">℗©</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: Arial Unicode MS; font-size: 14pt">℗©</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: Arial Unicode MS; font-size: 16pt">℗©</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: Arial Unicode MS; font-size: 18pt">℗©</span>
 
|-
 
!<span style="font-family: Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">Code2000</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: Code2000; font-size: 7pt">℗©</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: Code2000; font-size: 8pt">℗©</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: Code2000; font-size: 9pt">℗©</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: Code2000; font-size: 10pt">℗©</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: Code2000; font-size: 11pt">℗©</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: Code2000; font-size: 12pt">℗©</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: Code2000; font-size: 13pt">℗©</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: Code2000; font-size: 14pt">℗©</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: Code2000; font-size: 16pt">℗©</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: Code2000; font-size: 18pt">℗©</span>
 
|-
 
!<span style="font-family: Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">Lucida Sans Unicode</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: Lucida Sans Unicode; font-size: 7pt">℗©</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: Lucida Sans Unicode; font-size: 8pt">℗©</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: Lucida Sans Unicode; font-size: 9pt">℗©</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: Lucida Sans Unicode; font-size: 10pt">℗©</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: Lucida Sans Unicode; font-size: 11pt">℗©</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: Lucida Sans Unicode; font-size: 12pt">℗©</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: Lucida Sans Unicode; font-size: 13pt">℗©</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: Lucida Sans Unicode; font-size: 14pt">℗©</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: Lucida Sans Unicode; font-size: 16pt">℗©</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: Lucida Sans Unicode; font-size: 18pt">℗©</span>
 
|-
 
!<span style="font-family: Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">MS Reference Sans Serif</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: MS Reference Sans Serif; font-size: 7pt">℗©</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: MS Reference Sans Serif; font-size: 8pt">℗©</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: MS Reference Sans Serif; font-size: 9pt">℗©</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: MS Reference Sans Serif; font-size: 10pt">℗©</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: MS Reference Sans Serif; font-size: 11pt">℗©</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: MS Reference Sans Serif; font-size: 12pt">℗©</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: MS Reference Sans Serif; font-size: 13pt">℗©</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: MS Reference Sans Serif; font-size: 14pt">℗©</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: MS Reference Sans Serif; font-size: 16pt">℗©</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: MS Reference Sans Serif; font-size: 18pt">℗©</span>
 
|}
 
  
 
+
So as of 2013, I've deleted my notes. If you really want to see them, there's a history link at the top of this page, and you can go back and look.
{| border="1" cellspacing="1"
 
|+
 
!Font !! 7pt !! 8pt !! 9pt !! 10pt !! 11pt !! 12pt !! 13pt !! 14pt !! 16pt !! 18pt
 
|-
 
!<span style="font-family: Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">MS Gothic</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: MS Gothic; font-size: 7pt">℗©</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: MS Gothic; font-size: 8pt">℗©</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: MS Gothic; font-size: 9pt">℗©</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: MS Gothic; font-size: 10pt">℗©</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: MS Gothic; font-size: 11pt">℗©</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: MS Gothic; font-size: 12pt">℗©</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: MS Gothic; font-size: 13pt">℗©</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: MS Gothic; font-size: 14pt">℗©</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: MS Gothic; font-size: 16pt">℗©</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: MS Gothic; font-size: 18pt">℗©</span>
 
|-
 
!<span style="font-family: Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">MS Mincho</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: MS Mincho; font-size: 7pt">℗©</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: MS Mincho; font-size: 8pt">℗©</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: MS Mincho; font-size: 9pt">℗©</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: MS Mincho; font-size: 10pt">℗©</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: MS Mincho; font-size: 11pt">℗©</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: MS Mincho; font-size: 12pt">℗©</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: MS Mincho; font-size: 13pt">℗©</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: MS Mincho; font-size: 14pt">℗©</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: MS Mincho; font-size: 16pt">℗©</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: MS Mincho; font-size: 18pt">℗©</span>
 
|-
 
!<span style="font-family: Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">MS PGothic</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: MS PGothic; font-size: 7pt">℗©</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: MS PGothic; font-size: 8pt">℗©</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: MS PGothic; font-size: 9pt">℗©</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: MS PGothic; font-size: 10pt">℗©</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: MS PGothic; font-size: 11pt">℗©</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: MS PGothic; font-size: 12pt">℗©</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: MS PGothic; font-size: 13pt">℗©</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: MS PGothic; font-size: 14pt">℗©</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: MS PGothic; font-size: 16pt">℗©</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: MS PGothic; font-size: 18pt">℗©</span>
 
|-
 
!<span style="font-family: Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">MS PMincho</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: MS PMincho; font-size: 7pt">℗©</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: MS PMincho; font-size: 8pt">℗©</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: MS PMincho; font-size: 9pt">℗©</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: MS PMincho; font-size: 10pt">℗©</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: MS PMincho; font-size: 11pt">℗©</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: MS PMincho; font-size: 12pt">℗©</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: MS PMincho; font-size: 13pt">℗©</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: MS PMincho; font-size: 14pt">℗©</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: MS PMincho; font-size: 16pt">℗©</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: MS PMincho; font-size: 18pt">℗©</span>
 
|-
 
!<span style="font-family: Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">MS UI Gothic</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: MS UI Gothic; font-size: 7pt">℗©</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: MS UI Gothic; font-size: 8pt">℗©</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: MS UI Gothic; font-size: 9pt">℗©</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: MS UI Gothic; font-size: 10pt">℗©</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: MS UI Gothic; font-size: 11pt">℗©</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: MS UI Gothic; font-size: 12pt">℗©</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: MS UI Gothic; font-size: 13pt">℗©</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: MS UI Gothic; font-size: 14pt">℗©</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: MS UI Gothic; font-size: 16pt">℗©</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: MS UI Gothic; font-size: 18pt">℗©</span>
 
|}
 
 
 
==Analysis==
 
When the requested font is not available, I believe Firefox selects the first font, in alphabetical order, that contains the glyphs. So in my case it uses Arial Unicode MS for the missing fonts. '''Update:''' After installing Code2000, it started using that, so perhaps Firefox is choosing the most-recently installed font.
 
 
 
{| border="1" cellspacing="1"
 
! OS !! no smoothing || smoothing || ClearType
 
|-
 
! Windows XP
 
|
 
| Lucida Sans Unicode looks good, but at some sizes, hinting causes P to be off-center within the circle.
 
| Lucida Sans Unicode looks great.
 
|-
 
! Windows 2000
 
| MS Reference Sans Serif looks great. Arial Unicode MS looks good at 7, 8, 9 and 11 pt, but other sizes have hinting irregularities. Lucida Sans Unicode looks good, but at some sizes, hinting causes P to be off-center within the circle. Code2000 has many pixels missing at all sizes under 13 pt.
 
| Code2000 and MS Reference Sans Serif look great. Lucida Sans Unicode looks good, but at some sizes, hinting causes P to be off-center within the circle.
 
| ''n/a''
 
|}
 
 
 
MS Gothic / MS PGothic / MS Mincho / MS PMincho have no hinting or smoothing, so they're basically useless.
 
 
 
==Availability==
 
Lucida Sans Unicode should be available on all Windows 98, 2000, XP systems. Not on Windows ME. Server 2003 and Vista status unknown.
 
 
 
Lucida Grande is the equivalent of Lucida Sans Unicode on Mac OS X.
 
 
 
MS Reference Sans Serif will only be present if Encarta or Office 2007 is installed.
 
 
 
Arial Unicode MS is available on Mac OS X 10.5 or higher systems. In MS Office 2000 and later, it is an optional component that can be installed manually.
 
 
 
Code2000 is shareware and must be manually installed.
 
 
 
ClearType is on by default, system-wide, for users of Windows Vista. It is also on by default in Office 2007 and IE7, even if not enabled system-wide.
 
 
 
==More fonts to try==
 
 
 
* Recent versions of DejaVu Sans
 
* Lucida Grande on Mac OS X
 
* Lucida Sans (comes with StarOffice, JRE, maybe OpenOffice?)
 
* various other pan-Unicode fonts with Letterlike Symbols support - see http://www.alanwood.net/unicode/fonts.html
 
 
 
==Recommendations==
 
 
 
===IE7===
 
* Lucida Sans Unicode, MS Reference Sans Serif, Code2000, Arial Unicode MS, sans-serif
 
* <span style="font-family: Lucida Sans Unicode, MS Reference Sans Serif, Code2000, sans-serif">℗</span> & <span style="font-family: Lucida Sans Unicode, MS Reference Sans Serif, Code2000, sans-serif">©</span> 1984 ZTT Records Ltd.
 
 
 
===All other===
 
* ''?''
 

Latest revision as of 12:58, 7 February 2020

Content removed

In 2007, I did some research into whether Discogs should encourage the use of the Unicode character for the phonorecord copyright symbol is ℗ (U+2117). Some users were opposed to it because their browsers couldn't display ℗; they wanted to instead use Ⓟ (U+24C5) or ⓟ (U+24DF), which were somewhat more widely supported. I hated this idea, because they are the wrong characters, both semantically and aesthetically.

The main problem is that fonts, as used in computer operating systems, generally only contain glyphs for a subset of the bazillion characters in Unicode. On top of that, you can't guarantee that people are using the fonts you want. A smart text rendering system, when told to render a character that the desired font doesn't have, will look for a suitable replacement from some other font. I believe that's what happens now. It wasn't happening in 2007.

So, in 2007, I did some testing with my browsers at home, and put my notes on this wiki page. The idea was to see what worked and what didn't, and whether we could maybe implement a workaround that would force the proper display of ℗ on everyone's browsers.

However, soon after I started doing that, browsers became more robust and were able to display the proper ℗ character without us having to resort to workarounds or doing anything fancy with web fonts. At least, I think it's working for most people, most of the time.

So as of 2013, I've deleted my notes. If you really want to see them, there's a history link at the top of this page, and you can go back and look.