Difference between revisions of "User:Mjb/Phonorecord copyright symbol"

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====
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==Content removed==
  
The phonorecord copyright symbol is ℗ (U+2117),
+
In 2007, I did some research into whether Discogs should encourage the use of the Unicode character for the phonorecord copyright symbol is ℗ (U+2117). Some users were opposed to it because their browsers couldn't display ℗; they wanted to instead use Ⓟ (U+24C5) or ⓟ (U+24DF), which were somewhat more widely supported. I hated this idea, because they are the wrong characters, both semantically and aesthetically.
not ⓟ (U+24C5).
 
  
The regular copyright symbol is © (U+00A9).
+
The main problem is that fonts, as used in computer operating systems, generally only contain glyphs for a subset of the bazillion characters in Unicode. On top of that, you can't guarantee that people are using the fonts you want. A smart text rendering system, when told to render a character that the desired font doesn't have, will look for a suitable replacement from some other font. I believe that's what happens now. It wasn't happening in 2007.
  
==Fonts on my system that contain ==
+
So, in 2007, I did some testing with my browsers at home, and put my notes on this wiki page. The idea was to see what worked and what didn't, and whether we could maybe implement a workaround that would force the proper display of on everyone's browsers.
  
{| border="1" cellspacing="1"
+
However, soon after I started doing that, browsers became more robust and were able to display the proper ℗ character without us having to resort to workarounds or doing anything fancy with web fonts. At least, I think it's working for most people, most of the time.
|+
 
!Font !! 7pt !! 8pt !! 9pt !! 10pt !! 11pt !! 12pt !! 13pt !! 14pt !! 16pt !! 18pt
 
|-
 
!<span style="font-family: Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">Arial Unicode MS</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: Arial Unicode MS; font-size: 7pt">℗©</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: Arial Unicode MS; font-size: 8pt">℗©</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: Arial Unicode MS; font-size: 9pt">℗©</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: Arial Unicode MS; font-size: 10pt">℗©</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: Arial Unicode MS; font-size: 11pt">℗©</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: Arial Unicode MS; font-size: 12pt">℗©</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: Arial Unicode MS; font-size: 13pt">℗©</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: Arial Unicode MS; font-size: 14pt">℗©</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: Arial Unicode MS; font-size: 16pt">℗©</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: Arial Unicode MS; font-size: 18pt">℗©</span>
 
|-
 
!<span style="font-family: Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">Code2000</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: Code2000; font-size: 7pt">℗©</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: Code2000; font-size: 8pt">℗©</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: Code2000; font-size: 9pt">℗©</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: Code2000; font-size: 10pt">℗©</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: Code2000; font-size: 11pt">℗©</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: Code2000; font-size: 12pt">℗©</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: Code2000; font-size: 13pt">℗©</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: Code2000; font-size: 14pt">℗©</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: Code2000; font-size: 16pt">℗©</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: Code2000; font-size: 18pt">℗©</span>
 
|-
 
!<span style="font-family: Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">Deja Vu Sans</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: Deja Vu Sans; font-size: 7pt">℗©</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: Deja Vu Sans; font-size: 8pt">℗©</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: Deja Vu Sans; font-size: 9pt">℗©</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: Deja Vu Sans; font-size: 10pt">℗©</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: Deja Vu Sans; font-size: 11pt">℗©</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: Deja Vu Sans; font-size: 12pt">℗©</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: Deja Vu Sans; font-size: 13pt">℗©</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: Deja Vu Sans; font-size: 14pt">℗©</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: Deja Vu Sans; font-size: 16pt">℗©</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: Deja Vu Sans; font-size: 18pt">℗©</span>
 
|-
 
!<span style="font-family: Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">Deja Vu Sans Condensed</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: Deja Vu Sans Condensed; font-size: 7pt">℗©</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: Deja Vu Sans Condensed; font-size: 8pt">℗©</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: Deja Vu Sans Condensed; font-size: 9pt">℗©</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: Deja Vu Sans Condensed; font-size: 10pt">℗©</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: Deja Vu Sans Condensed; font-size: 11pt">℗©</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: Deja Vu Sans Condensed; font-size: 12pt">℗©</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: Deja Vu Sans Condensed; font-size: 13pt">℗©</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: Deja Vu Sans Condensed; font-size: 14pt">℗©</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: Deja Vu Sans Condensed; font-size: 16pt">℗©</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: Deja Vu Sans Condensed; font-size: 18pt">℗©</span>
 
|-
 
!<span style="font-family: Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">Deja Vu Sans Light</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: Deja Vu Sans Light; font-size: 7pt">℗©</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: Deja Vu Sans Light; font-size: 8pt">℗©</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: Deja Vu Sans Light; font-size: 9pt">℗©</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: Deja Vu Sans Light; font-size: 10pt">℗©</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: Deja Vu Sans Light; font-size: 11pt">℗©</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: Deja Vu Sans Light; font-size: 12pt">℗©</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: Deja Vu Sans Light; font-size: 13pt">℗©</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: Deja Vu Sans Light; font-size: 14pt">℗©</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: Deja Vu Sans Light; font-size: 16pt">℗©</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: Deja Vu Sans Light; font-size: 18pt">℗©</span>
 
|-
 
!<span style="font-family: Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">Lucida Sans Unicode</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: Lucida Sans Unicode; font-size: 7pt">℗©</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: Lucida Sans Unicode; font-size: 8pt">℗©</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: Lucida Sans Unicode; font-size: 9pt">℗©</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: Lucida Sans Unicode; font-size: 10pt">℗©</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: Lucida Sans Unicode; font-size: 11pt">℗©</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: Lucida Sans Unicode; font-size: 12pt">℗©</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: Lucida Sans Unicode; font-size: 13pt">℗©</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: Lucida Sans Unicode; font-size: 14pt">℗©</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: Lucida Sans Unicode; font-size: 16pt">℗©</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: Lucida Sans Unicode; font-size: 18pt">℗©</span>
 
|-
 
!<span style="font-family: Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">MS Reference Sans Serif</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: MS Reference Sans Serif; font-size: 7pt">℗©</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: MS Reference Sans Serif; font-size: 8pt">℗©</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: MS Reference Sans Serif; font-size: 9pt">℗©</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: MS Reference Sans Serif; font-size: 10pt">℗©</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: MS Reference Sans Serif; font-size: 11pt">℗©</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: MS Reference Sans Serif; font-size: 12pt">℗©</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: MS Reference Sans Serif; font-size: 13pt">℗©</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: MS Reference Sans Serif; font-size: 14pt">℗©</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: MS Reference Sans Serif; font-size: 16pt">℗©</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: MS Reference Sans Serif; font-size: 18pt">℗©</span>
 
|}
 
  
 
+
So as of 2013, I've deleted my notes. If you really want to see them, there's a history link at the top of this page, and you can go back and look.
{| border="1" cellspacing="1"
 
|+
 
!Font !! 7pt !! 8pt !! 9pt !! 10pt !! 11pt !! 12pt !! 13pt !! 14pt !! 16pt !! 18pt
 
|-
 
!<span style="font-family: Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">MS Gothic</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: MS Gothic; font-size: 7pt">℗©</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: MS Gothic; font-size: 8pt">℗©</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: MS Gothic; font-size: 9pt">℗©</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: MS Gothic; font-size: 10pt">℗©</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: MS Gothic; font-size: 11pt">℗©</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: MS Gothic; font-size: 12pt">℗©</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: MS Gothic; font-size: 13pt">℗©</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: MS Gothic; font-size: 14pt">℗©</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: MS Gothic; font-size: 16pt">℗©</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: MS Gothic; font-size: 18pt">℗©</span>
 
|-
 
!<span style="font-family: Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">MS Mincho</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: MS Mincho; font-size: 7pt">℗©</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: MS Mincho; font-size: 8pt">℗©</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: MS Mincho; font-size: 9pt">℗©</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: MS Mincho; font-size: 10pt">℗©</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: MS Mincho; font-size: 11pt">℗©</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: MS Mincho; font-size: 12pt">℗©</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: MS Mincho; font-size: 13pt">℗©</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: MS Mincho; font-size: 14pt">℗©</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: MS Mincho; font-size: 16pt">℗©</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: MS Mincho; font-size: 18pt">℗©</span>
 
|-
 
!<span style="font-family: Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">MS PGothic</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: MS PGothic; font-size: 7pt">℗©</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: MS PGothic; font-size: 8pt">℗©</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: MS PGothic; font-size: 9pt">℗©</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: MS PGothic; font-size: 10pt">℗©</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: MS PGothic; font-size: 11pt">℗©</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: MS PGothic; font-size: 12pt">℗©</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: MS PGothic; font-size: 13pt">℗©</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: MS PGothic; font-size: 14pt">℗©</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: MS PGothic; font-size: 16pt">℗©</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: MS PGothic; font-size: 18pt">℗©</span>
 
|-
 
!<span style="font-family: Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">MS PMincho</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: MS PMincho; font-size: 7pt">℗©</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: MS PMincho; font-size: 8pt">℗©</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: MS PMincho; font-size: 9pt">℗©</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: MS PMincho; font-size: 10pt">℗©</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: MS PMincho; font-size: 11pt">℗©</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: MS PMincho; font-size: 12pt">℗©</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: MS PMincho; font-size: 13pt">℗©</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: MS PMincho; font-size: 14pt">℗©</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: MS PMincho; font-size: 16pt">℗©</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: MS PMincho; font-size: 18pt">℗©</span>
 
|-
 
!<span style="font-family: Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">MS UI Gothic</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: MS UI Gothic; font-size: 7pt">℗©</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: MS UI Gothic; font-size: 8pt">℗©</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: MS UI Gothic; font-size: 9pt">℗©</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: MS UI Gothic; font-size: 10pt">℗©</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: MS UI Gothic; font-size: 11pt">℗©</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: MS UI Gothic; font-size: 12pt">℗©</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: MS UI Gothic; font-size: 13pt">℗©</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: MS UI Gothic; font-size: 14pt">℗©</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: MS UI Gothic; font-size: 16pt">℗©</span>
 
|<span style="font-family: MS UI Gothic; font-size: 18pt">℗©</span>
 
|}
 
 
 
==Analysis==
 
When the requested font is not available, I believe Firefox selects the first font, in alphabetical order, that contains the glyphs. So in my case it uses Arial Unicode MS for the missing fonts. '''Update:''' After installing Code2000, it started using that, so perhaps Firefox is choosing the most-recently installed font.
 
 
 
{| border="1" cellspacing="1"
 
! OS !! no smoothing || smoothing || ClearType
 
|-
 
! Windows XP
 
| ''not yet tested''
 
| Lucida Sans Unicode looks good, but at some sizes, hinting causes P to be off-center within the circle.
 
| Lucida Sans Unicode looks great.
 
|-
 
! Windows 2000
 
| MS Reference Sans Serif looks good, but is slightly large, and it has no smoothing at typical screen sizes. Arial Unicode MS looks good at 7, 8, and 9 pt, but other sizes have hinting irregularities. Lucida Sans Unicode looks good and may have smoothing, but at some sizes, hinting causes P to be off-center within the circle. Code2000 has many pixels missing at all sizes under 13 pt.
 
| Code2000 looks good. Arial Unicode MS looks good at 7, 8, and 9 pt, but other sizes have hinting irregularities. MS Reference Sans Serif looks good, but is slightly large, and it has no smoothing at typical screen sizes. Lucida Sans Unicode looks good, but at some sizes, hinting causes P to be off-center within the circle.
 
| ''n/a''
 
|}
 
 
 
MS Gothic / MS PGothic / MS UI Gothic and MS Mincho / MS PMincho have no hinting or smoothing, and the two copyright symbols are inconsistent within each font.
 
 
 
==Availability==
 
Lucida Sans Unicode should be available on all Windows 98, 2000, XP systems. Not on Windows ME. Server 2003 and Vista status unknown.
 
 
 
Lucida Grande is the equivalent of Lucida Sans Unicode on Mac OS X.
 
 
 
MS Reference Sans Serif will only be present if Encarta or Office 2007 is installed.
 
 
 
Arial Unicode MS is available on Mac OS X 10.5 or higher systems. In MS Office 2000 and later, it is an optional component that can be installed manually.
 
 
 
Code2000 is shareware and must be manually installed.
 
 
 
ClearType is on by default, system-wide, for users of Windows Vista. It is also on by default in Office 2007 and IE7, even if not enabled system-wide.
 
 
 
==More fonts to try==
 
 
 
* Recent versions of DejaVu Sans
 
* Lucida Grande on Mac OS X
 
* Lucida Sans (comes with StarOffice, JRE, maybe OpenOffice?)
 
* various other pan-Unicode fonts with Letterlike Symbols support - see http://www.alanwood.net/unicode/fonts.html
 
 
 
==Recommendations==
 
 
 
This is a work in progress.
 
 
 
===IE7===
 
* font-family: Lucida Sans Unicode, MS Reference Sans Serif, Code2000, sans-serif
 
* Surrounding text is Arial: <span style="font-family: Arial"><span style="font-family: Lucida Sans Unicode, MS Reference Sans Serif, Code2000, sans-serif">℗</span> & <span style="font-family: Lucida Sans Unicode, MS Reference Sans Serif, Code2000, sans-serif">©</span> 1984 ZTT Records Ltd.</span>
 
* Surrounding text is Franklin Gothic Book: <span style="font-family: Franklin Gothic Book"><span style="font-family: Lucida Sans Unicode, MS Reference Sans Serif, Code2000, sans-serif">℗</span> & <span style="font-family: Lucida Sans Unicode, MS Reference Sans Serif, Code2000, sans-serif">©</span> 1984 ZTT Records Ltd.</span>
 
 
 
===All other===
 
* font-family: MS Reference Sans Serif, Lucida Sans Unicode, Arial Unicode MS, Code2000, sans-serif
 
* Surrounding text is Arial: <span style="font-family: Arial"><span style="vertical-align: 5%; font-family: MS Reference Sans Serif, Lucida Sans Unicode, Arial Unicode MS, Code2000, sans-serif">℗</span> & <span style="vertical-align: 5%; font-family: MS Reference Sans Serif, Lucida Sans Unicode, Arial Unicode MS, Code2000, sans-serif">©</span> 1984 ZTT Records Ltd.</span>
 
* Surrounding text is Franklin Gothic Book: <span style="font-family: Franklin Gothic Book"><span style="vertical-align: 2.5%; font-family: MS Reference Sans Serif, Lucida Sans Unicode, Arial Unicode MS, Code2000, sans-serif">℗</span> & <span style="vertical-align: 2.5%; font-family: MS Reference Sans Serif, Lucida Sans Unicode, Arial Unicode MS, Code2000, sans-serif">©</span> 1984 ZTT Records Ltd.</span>
 
 
 
===Notes===
 
Both the ℗ ''and'' the © are getting the styles; otherwise the © would be in the surrounding text font and would look inconsistent.
 
 
 
When using MS Reference Sans Serif for the symbols, the circles are likely to be bigger than the cap height of the surrounding text, which doesn't look good. Adjusting ''font-size'' and ''vertical-align'' to percentages can help, but the cap height of the surrounding text may vary, and makes this unpredictable. In theory, ''vertical-align'' should be ''middle'', but that results in the ℗ being at one position and the © at another, and is inconsistent from font to font anyway. Small percentage values work better.
 

Latest revision as of 12:58, 7 February 2020

Content removed

In 2007, I did some research into whether Discogs should encourage the use of the Unicode character for the phonorecord copyright symbol is ℗ (U+2117). Some users were opposed to it because their browsers couldn't display ℗; they wanted to instead use Ⓟ (U+24C5) or ⓟ (U+24DF), which were somewhat more widely supported. I hated this idea, because they are the wrong characters, both semantically and aesthetically.

The main problem is that fonts, as used in computer operating systems, generally only contain glyphs for a subset of the bazillion characters in Unicode. On top of that, you can't guarantee that people are using the fonts you want. A smart text rendering system, when told to render a character that the desired font doesn't have, will look for a suitable replacement from some other font. I believe that's what happens now. It wasn't happening in 2007.

So, in 2007, I did some testing with my browsers at home, and put my notes on this wiki page. The idea was to see what worked and what didn't, and whether we could maybe implement a workaround that would force the proper display of ℗ on everyone's browsers.

However, soon after I started doing that, browsers became more robust and were able to display the proper ℗ character without us having to resort to workarounds or doing anything fancy with web fonts. At least, I think it's working for most people, most of the time.

So as of 2013, I've deleted my notes. If you really want to see them, there's a history link at the top of this page, and you can go back and look.