Island Records questionable entries

From Offset
Jump to navigationJump to search
Islandrecords.gif
This article is part of the Island Records research wiki at offset.skew.org.

In Discogs there are a lot of Island related releases that are perhaps misfiled or contain incorrect data. This article lists these questionable entries, and contains notes about our attempts to resolve the issues.

If you're a Discogs user, you can help!

Island Records (US) misfiles

Regarding the following releases that are currently filed under Island Records (US), onelittle says There are a few I reckon are miscatalogued, they look like UK/EU issues to me, missing a secondary cat#. Any thoughts on these? I'm right in saying that these are v unlikely to be US, yes?

  • http://www.discogs.com/release/39299 - ?
  • http://www.discogs.com/release/39452 - 4th & B'way (see scan), poss UK
  • http://www.discogs.com/release/58563 - UK
  • http://www.discogs.com/release/64179 - ?
    • It's a US release (see the discussion page)
  • http://www.discogs.com/release/84268 - could be US / German?, needs checking
    • It's the German release, I have a copy of this one --RPB 07:31, 9 Nov 2006 (MST)
  • http://www.discogs.com/release/96049 - Germany? (why does it give NL as country?)
    • The difference is usually only print quality / slight differneces in colour and a "." between the third and fourth figure. We can't see it on the scan.
  • http://www.discogs.com/release/147701 - German
    • I confirm a German release --RPB 07:31, 9 Nov 2006 (MST)
  • http://www.discogs.com/release/159424 - German ? 4th & Bway?
    • It's a German release; Ariola/BMG used the 4th&B'way logo. --RPB 07:31, 9 Nov 2006 (MST)
  • http://www.discogs.com/release/198421 - dupe of http://www.discogs.com/release/71802 - check the scans
    • I contacted the submitter (BRUCE1991) and one of the people with it in their collection. Submitter says "only 1 number cat# on my copy 878 561-1 nothing about 12W...The label sticker is different of the one on your link. Only 1 cat on Island, it seems that I didn't make a mistake" and the person with it in their collection says they have the latter one (71802) which looks like the scans. So I'd say there's two separate releases - mjb
    • Ah, interesting. Did he specify if it was a US or EU issue? I'd expect US issues to use a longer xxx-xxx xxx-x code - onelittle
    • Didn't specify. I'll ask. The one with two cat#s is certainly EU given all the things on the label. -mjb
    • I've updated the UK/EU edition so that it mentions both cat#s. Didn't hear back from BRUCE1991 on a definitive country for the other. - mjb
  • http://www.discogs.com/release/201311
  • http://www.discogs.com/release/219293 - ?
    • German CD release 258 ### correlates with 208 ### on LP. rpb
  • http://www.discogs.com/release/223841 - Sweden?
    • The fine print in the images makes it clear it was made in Sweden. We don't have an Island Records (Sweden) yet though. Note it has a WIP cat#. - mjb
    • Interesting. We need Island (Sweden) then!
  • http://www.discogs.com/release/239442 - almost certainly 4th & B'way UK, BRW 304
    • I emailed the submitter (Darafayen) to check for the BRW number. - mjb
    • on 2004-05-01 mayday changed the # to what it is. probably just spacing fix. - mjb
  • http://www.discogs.com/release/244335 - German ? 4th & Bway?
    • It's a German release; Ariola/BMG used the 4th&B'way logo, rpb
  • http://www.discogs.com/release/244982 - ? looks odd
  • http://www.discogs.com/release/255689 - 510 347-1 doesn't help much, could be UK, EU or (if it's missing a prefix) US
  • http://www.discogs.com/release/257306 - poss a dupe of http://www.discogs.com/release/16868
  • http://www.discogs.com/release/260793 - ? NL, maybe?
    • or German
  • http://www.discogs.com/release/310505 - wrongly formatted cat# ?
    • I emailed the submitter (al1) and the person who edited the release date (goleador). I couldn't find any useful info via Google or GEMM. goleador says his has cat# 12 GOGO 1 (only) and RECORDING MADE BY T.T.E.D. RECORDS, and he thinks it's a US release. I disagree. Sounds like a 4th & B'way UK release to me. I'm asking him for more details. -mjb
    • The thing I dont get here is the existing cat# _looks_ like a post '89 cat#. This doesn't make sense from a date POV. Also, I don't remember ever seeing any post-'89 releases with a 880 xxx-x prefix on any Island label. Reformatted? Licensed to another EU label? I agree that 12 GOGO 1 is going to be a UK issue, so goleador might have the op to do a new sub if al1's isn't UK. - onelittle
    • http://www.tted.net/ under the 1985 March timeline: "Red & The Boys arrive in England for a press tour to support Movin And Groovin for TTED/ 4th & B'way / Island Records" - so in the UK it was def licensed to 4th&Bway from American label TTED
    • al1 says "Country of the release is for sure France. I can see three logos : Island, 4th & Broadway, & TTED Records". I am asking him to confirm whether 4th & B'way is prominent on the labels.
    • ok, so goleador prob needs to make a new sub for 12 GOGO 1. Re: al1s logos: I have seen similar releases on 4th & Bway to compare with - many early 4th & Bway 12"s were licensed from NYC labels, and retained the original labels' logo, the 4th&Bway logo and the Island "manufactured and distributed by" logo: it's on 4th&Bway, licensed from TTED, manufactured by Island. - onelittle
    • another thought: the 880 prefix is going to be a Phonogram one (or Mercury / Vertigo etc). Island released stuff in France thru them (eg check http://www.discogs.com/label/Phonogram+GmbH for the French ZTT releases from the same era). If it is via a Phonogram label, how is this handled?
    • our questions answered (scan from al1):
    • Redds.jpg
    • Looks like your guess was right...It's on Phonogram, and is from France. Exactly how to file it, uh... hmm... - mjb
    • Oh, excellent! Yes, how to file it? So - it's a French 4th&Broadway release, manufactured and distributed by Phonogram. It brings us to a core Island issue - how do we handle releases that are manufactured by other labels, but with their branding (see also Ariola). - onelittle
    • I'll contact goleador and ask him to submit his release as a new entry too.
    • Yeah, I guess since there's no Phonogram logo they must want it to be associated with one of the others, and 4th & B'way is the most likely candidate. - mjb
    • I'm afraid that any what-labels-do-we-file-it-under policy we try to come up with for Island is going to be challenged and argued in circles. I've been hesitant to use the forums to invite others into the fray because everyone has their own take on what a "label" is and what how it should manifest in Discogs. I really want everyone to use our actual observations of Island releases (as we're documenting on the main page), not their prejudices, as the basis for what we do with Island in particular. I'm afraid that if I invite some of the senior mods & editors to weigh in on it, they'll have contradictory opinions that will be trying too hard to be a one-size-fits-all solution for all labels. Some people worry too much about precdent. I would rather we first try to get to a point where we have updated the Island label profiles to explain the realities as best we can: where the incorporation and copyright centres were, what manufacturers and distributors were involved, the strength of the Island brand on releases, the catalogue # schemes, and so forth. Basically, make it difficult for anyone to come along and argue again that "Island" in Discogs should only be limited to just UK and US releases, and make it easy for the submitters to file things under the right "Island", at least, if not also the right "PolyGram" or whatever.
    • I think our biggest hurdle is not so much justifying that the releases are associated with more than one brand and more than one company, in varying roles (people are getting more comfortable with that notion now I think), but rather just that we have to make sacrifices when filing things under labels in Discogs. There is still a bias in the system toward one-label, one-catalogue-#, and keeping UK-style cat#s on a label that has UK releases only. For example do we want to file this one under "4th & Broadway" or "4th & Broadway (France)"? And do we file it also under "Phonogram (France)" with the same cat#? - mjb
    • I hear totally what you are saying, and agree. I think the work we are doing here is proving very useful, we're spotting patterns at long last. The Island problem could be solved by strict explicatory profile notes for each label and its cataloguing conventions over the years. Getting all others on board might be impossible - but I think we will soon be able to show working patterns for territories and their releases, enough to create a better structure. In my mind, our biggest problem is not being able to visibly display the structural heirarchy of the label on Discogs with the Parent/Sublabel set-up. Oh, what I'd do for some way to link distributors to labels... - onelittle
    • re: 12 GOGO 1 - goleador says he can confirm the info that his is a UK 4&Bway one, I've requested he makes a new sub. onelittle
  • http://www.discogs.com/release/324756 - German ? 4th & Bway?
  • http://www.discogs.com/release/329471 - UK?
    • Has a WIP cat# and a "-1U" suffix. I wonder if that's really on the label or only in the runout. In any case you never see "-1U" on US releases. - mjb
    • Submitter (andy.kempson) contacted. - mjb
    • My guess - afaik, UK Island used XWIP and WIP, but WIPX was a US code. I agree with you, -1U is likely to be a matrix code, the pressing plate #
  • http://www.discogs.com/release/353114 - ?
  • http://www.discogs.com/release/387495 - UK
  • http://www.discogs.com/release/388707 - Sweden?
    • Another one with country Sweden and a WIP cat#. No images. - mjb
  • http://www.discogs.com/release/403062 - UK/EU
    • 1987 was interesting: Island (UK) was not yet a friend of CDs - as it seems to me - so they ordered the CDs with their then German and Netherlands partners BMG, and for a certain time, on the BMG releases the UK cat.-numbers appeared. Even after Island was sold to polyGram the distribution deal remained in force and led to another situation: CD with UK and PolyGram cat.-numbers were distributed by BMG with small stickers on the cover to mark their BMG numbers, rpb
  • http://www.discogs.com/release/421406 - aaaaaargh
  • http://www.discogs.com/release/433580 - German ?
  • http://www.discogs.com/release/434754 - 2tk from late 90s = unlikely to be UK. German? DefJam?? no idea...
  • http://www.discogs.com/release/435515 - UK? label?
  • http://www.discogs.com/release/441597 - UK?
  • http://www.discogs.com/release/450702 - dupe of http://www.discogs.com/release/94393 ? very unsure 'bout that one
    • No sign of the "US" cat# on the scans of the other one. It was submitted by the same guy as the one above (555xtrafunk), so I'll ask him about both of them. - mjb
  • http://www.discogs.com/release/479687 - Germany ?
  • http://www.discogs.com/release/512797 - UK? PY900 is a PolyGram label code
  • http://www.discogs.com/release/536318 - UK? label?
  • http://www.discogs.com/release/585913 - dupe of http://www.discogs.com/release/56372 ?
    • The "US" one looks like maybe it's Australian, per a listing on reeferrecords.com. That vendor enters cat#s with no spaces or punctuation. Also, it was submitted by someone in Sydney (555xtrafunk). I've written to him but he's in Denmark at the moment and won't be back home to check on his records till mid-April. guzzer offered to help as well; he says "Reefer records owner lives in my building so I'll ask him to check the release" - mjb
  • http://www.discogs.com/release/611450 - UK? Mango?
    • guzzer says "no mention of Mango anywhere on it. Just Island, and the Island 40th birthday logo. Its an import as well, so its not Australia"

Bild 124-500.jpg

    • Island released in 1997 (in Europe at least: I bought in France and in Germany) a series of Island 40th compilations and retrospectives, all with logos like the one I show above. They only have the cat.-number by PolyGram. The releases were accomanied by a website(www.island40th.com), presenting quite a lot of information on the featured artists (a.o. Grace Jones, LKJ, ...), on the 4 or 5 vol. series of retrospective compilations and a CD called Ska Island compiled by Gaz Mayall. The site is off-line for quite a long period.
  • http://www.discogs.com/release/612934 - Tuff Gong?
    • Doubtful. I suspect Island Records (Australia). I emailed the submitter (guzzer). - mjb
    • I checked with tosmcgee about http://www.discogs.com/release/584327 possibly being a dupe. His reply (edited): "In the spine and barcode area on the left 846 197-2 and TGDCD1. Tuff Gong logo is more prominent than Island logo. Made in France. The copyright in this sound recording is owned by Island Records inc and is exclusively licensed to Island Records ltd in the UK". However, it's perfectly plausible that a foreign (likely Austrailian) copy would exclude TGDCD1 and therefore not be a dupe! Things to doublecheck then are does it mention TGDCD1 anywhere, does it mention country of mfr. - onelittle
    • guzzer says that his copy of http://www.discogs.com/release/612934 is "marketed by Polygram in Australia under exclusive licence from Island. Usually Island releases in Australia were licenced to Festival and carried a Festival Cat #. But there are some exceptions on Polygram (such as the Rebirth of Cool Series)" ... so I'll submit an update to fix the label and country on that one. - mjb
    • guzzer's update is awaiting votes by reggae mods: http://www.discogs.com/changereq?id=1619402 - mjb
  • http://www.discogs.com/release/615509 - Tuff Gong?
    • Doubtful. I suspect Island Records (Australia). I emailed the submitter (guzzer). - mjb
    • guzzer says "Island UK - probably I copied over track details etc from an existing release and forgot to change the country. Apologies" - mjb
    • If it's Island UK it's likely to be co-branded Tuff Gong with a TGDCD #… - onelittle
    • Yup. guzzer submitted an edit to fix it. Waiting for reggae mods to vote on it. - mjb
  • http://www.discogs.com/release/616908 - prob missing a second cat#, prob UK
    • Indeed. guzzer says it's on Island Jamaica and there are two #s: 524 117-2 and IJCD 3002. I've advised him to file it under Island UK and Island Jamaica. - mjb
  • http://www.discogs.com/release/618057 - UK?
    • Yeah, similar deal as the one above. I've advised guzzer to file it under Island Jamaica Jazz (new label) and Island UK. - mjb

Ariola pseudo-misfiles

Once we're certain about which Island-branded releases were issued by Ariola, we can file them all under both Ariola and Island (somehow). Some are currently under Ariola instead of Island, so we need to figure out which of those Ariola items are Island-branded, and then get them filed under the appropriate Island in Discogs.

I have made a 'first-pass' of possible errors on Ariola Germany 11 Apr 06. This is in no way a complete list, and all need confirming - onelittle

Other misfiles and mistakes

Island Records (UK) misfiles

Bild 164-500.jpg

Island Records (UK) inconsistent filing

Possible partial cat#s, which might result in misfilings.

onelittle: quite often @ discogs, UK and INT cat#s are split between parent and sublabel. Eg, a 90s release on ZTT will have its INT cat# listed as a Warners one as it matches the parents' patterns (see http://www.discogs.com/history?release_id=636878 - ahem). My opinion is; of course it does, because the label is part of that group at time of release. UK and INT cat#s should always be on the same label IMO. (Also, as we are not cataloguing distributor links atm, we shouldn't try to interlink sublabels in such a way). This problem affects most major labels; below is a list of inconsistencies in Island UK where I believe there is no need for Island UK to be listed as a label - this should be implied by the subsidiary label's affiliation at the time of release.

I'll need to sleep on that one for a while - mjb

checked up through cat # 600 249 / Bob Marley & The Wailers / Could You Be Loved

Log of old catalogue # changes

Sometimes releases have been misfiled in Discogs due to confusion over catalogue numbers. Sometimes people will change the number on a release for dubious reasons, or to conform with data entry conventions that are no longer enforced. The edit history for releases doesn't always go back as far as we'd like, so it can be hard to figure out what changes have been made.

To help us out with this, Kevin L. (Discogs founder and chief admin 'teo') has provided us with a dump of all the catalogue number changes that were made between 5 Jan 2003 and 4 Jun 2004, covering releases 1 through 267504. The original cat# is not recorded, but we can see who changed the cat# to what, and when.

Catalogue number changes are documented here in separate lists, for releases starting at 45, 11668, 24095, 34664, 44084, 54886, 66546, 79380, 90973, 102934, 116073, 129752, 145001, 163519, 185486, and 214541.

We don't see changes prior to 5 Jan 2003, or those made between 4 Jun 2004 and whatever the oldest history date is that we can see in Discogs.

I've checked all the items listed below (as of 2006-04-27) against the change log. Only a few were in the log, and I've noted the changes next to the release. Kevin has given us some older logs, but they're less useful. - mjb

Retrieved from "https://offset.skew.org/index.php?title=Island_Records_questionable_entries&oldid=2107"